118. Market Research Made Simple: How to Talk to Your Ideal Clients with Joanne Homestead
When you’re starting something new, it’s easy to think you need to have your ideal client, offer, messaging, and business idea all figured out before you take action. But what if talking to people could actually help you figure those things out?
In this episode, I’m talking with my friend, fellow mom entrepreneur, and founder of Desk Plant Creatives, Joanne Homestead, about market research and why it doesn’t have to be complicated or intimidating. We break down what market research conversations actually look like, who to talk to, what questions to ask, and what to listen for.
Tune in this week as we dive into how market research conversations can help you understand your people, hone your messaging, and figure out what problems your business can solve. Joanne also shares her story of leaving teaching to build her own business and how hearing the stories of other women who had already made the leap helped her believe that she could do it too. Whether you know exactly who you want to work with or you’re still figuring out what kind of business you want to build, this conversation will give you a simple way to get out of your own head, start talking to people, and create momentum.
Ready for clarity and a simple action plan to get your business started? Schedule a free 1-hour consultation with me here!
What You’ll Learn from this Episode:
Why market research doesn’t have to be a formal or complicated process.
Who to talk to when you’re trying to understand your ideal clients and your business.
What questions to ask during a market research conversation and the 4 things to listen for.
How market research can help you refine your niche, messaging, and offer.
Why talking to different types of potential clients can help you figure out who you actually want to work with.
How hearing other entrepreneurs’ stories can make starting a business feel more possible.
Why community can be so important when you’re making the transition from a traditional career to entrepreneurship.
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Full Episode Transcript:
You definitely want to reach out to people you'd like to work with because those are the clients you want to be working with. So find the people that you want to work with. It could be a potential client because I know for myself, having done the market research, the market research conversation ends up - they become a client. And so sometimes it's just gathering the information, which is really great, too. It's also, that's the gold, too, because you can have the information to then help you hone your networking conversations, to hone your content, to hone the way you're having coffee chats, all of those things.
Welcome to How to Quit Your Job, the podcast for moms ready to ditch the nine-to-five and build a life and business they love. I’m your host, Jenna Rykiel. Let’s go.
Hi mom friends. You know, I can honestly say I think there's only one really good thing that came out of my MBA program. As I've said before on this podcast, you absolutely do not need an MBA to start a business. That was something that I thought I had to do. You absolutely do not have to. In fact, I could probably go on for days about how, in many ways, an MBA is the antithesis of entrepreneurship.
But there was one marketing course I took where we had to develop a new product for an already existing business. I remember I did some version of a meatless burger, and this was before they were everywhere. So apparently I was very well ahead of my time. But a huge part of that course was market research. It was about understanding the needs of our ideal customers. What questions do we ask to understand their problems? Is there actually a market for what we want to offer? And how do we talk about the solution in a way that connects with the people that we want to help?
All these years later, that might be the lesson from my MBA that has had the biggest impact on my business. And I think market research can sound like a big formal scary thing. But really it's just having conversations with people. It's getting to know them, understanding what they need, learning the language they use to describe their problems, and making sure the value you want to offer actually aligns with what people want.
And I think it can be especially powerful when you're at the beginning of building a business and you don't totally know what you're doing yet. You don't need the perfect business idea, you don't need your ideal client completely figured out. You don't even need the perfect offer. You can actually use these conversations to help you figure those things out. And that's a big part of what today's episode is all about.
Today I'm talking with a good friend and fellow mom entrepreneur, Joanne Homestead, founder of Desk Plant Creatives. Joanne and I met years ago through some web of networking and she's become one of those people in my work world who I've collaborated with, I've learned from, I've supported and I've received support from. And actually that's another reason I wanted to share this conversation today.
A few episodes ago, I talked about the importance of surrounding yourself with people who inspire you and who understand what you're doing. Joanne is a great example of what can happen when you expand your network and start building relationships with other entrepreneurs. Joanne left a career in teaching to build her own business as an email copy coach and strategist. And toward the end of our conversation today, we talk about what gave her the courage to make that transition and why hearing the stories of other people who had already done it was so important for her.
So there are really two things I want you listening for today. First, the practical piece: how you can use market research conversations to better understand your people, your business, your messaging, and even who you actually want to work with, even before you have any idea what you want to do. And second, I want you listening to Joanne's story through the lens of possibility and seeing her as one of us, somebody who had a career, was great at what she did, and who took a chance on herself to build something of her own. Because when you've spent your entire career in a traditional role, entrepreneurship can feel like this completely different world. And sometimes you need to talk to people doing it, you need to hear their stories and expose yourself to what's possible before you can start to imagine yourself doing it, too.
One quick note before we jump in. Joanne and I originally had a much longer conversation about all the things that she is such an expert in. We talked about email content, messaging, market research, and entrepreneurship. As I was listening back, I realized even though there was so much goodness in all the things that we were talking about, there was more value and it was easier to digest if I narrowed this episode down and really focused on the part of the conversation that I think will be most useful for you right now.
So you're going to hear us jump into the conversation already in progress. We start with market research: what it actually is, who to talk to, what questions to ask, and most importantly, what to listen for. And then, like I mentioned, we're going to shift into Joanne's own story of leaving a teaching career and building her own business. My hope is that by the end of this episode, market research feels a whole lot less intimidating, and entrepreneurship and taking that next step feels a little less mysterious.
And once you've digested all of Joanne's wisdom, I want to challenge you to go out and plan a few market research conversations of your own. Because sometimes the fastest way to create momentum isn't sitting at your computer trying to figure everything out. It's getting out into the world, talking to people, and seeing what you learn. All right, let's get into my conversation with Joanne.
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Jenna: Well, let's break it down. How would you describe market research? Because I imagine market research, as we're saying it, sounds super scary, where it's like, oh, this is scientific or it's technical or I need to be good at research or I need to know my market. It feels like none of that is actually true.
Joanne: Yeah. Market research is just a conversation. That's how I like to think of it. That's how I think of content, too. Content is just a conversation. They just have different structures and they just come in different vehicles. That's all. It's all just different types of conversations. So, yeah, I think that market research doesn't have to feel like big and hairy and scary. You could just have even a few questions and you can make it as short and as long as you want. Like here's an example.
I've done a market research last year or two years ago, and it was literally one question and that was it. And I just asked my community, what is it that they're looking for when it comes to working with me? It was a two-question survey. The second question was if you want to elaborate more and some people would put, oh, it was really hard to choose. I wanted to choose two or three and that's where they could do that, too. So market research could be as simple as just that and it could be more extensive, like having six to 10 questions, or it could just be like two or three questions. And then what I like to do is to just have a few kind of like anchor questions and then digging deeper into that, because what can happen is you ask the three questions, but you're not getting the information that you're looking for, and that's where you get to dig a bit.
Jenna: So who are we doing these market research conversations with? What do you say?
Joanne: Yeah, you definitely want to reach out to people you'd like to work with because those are the clients you want to be working with. So find the people that you want to work with. It could be a potential client because I know for myself, having done the market research, the market research conversation ends up they become a client. And so sometimes it's just gathering the information, which is really great, too. It's also that's the gold, too, because you can have the information to then help you hone your networking conversations, to hone your content, to hone the way you're having coffee chats, all of those things.
Jenna: So I love this for somebody who doesn't know who their ideal client is. I think this could also be a really powerful tool. I mean, when I started market research in my own business, I knew that I wanted to work with moms. Like I knew that I was going to be talking to moms who were in corporate, who want to leave, and I was going to be asking them, what gets in the way of you leaving? And why do you think that you wouldn't be able to start a business, right? Like I talked to a lot of people who had no intentions of starting a business actually, because I wanted to get in their heads and know why they thought they couldn't do it. Because of course, in my mind, I'm like, anybody can do it. Like I absolutely know that. Whether everybody wants to or not is a different story, but I knew capability wise that every mom could. So I really wanted to talk to people actually who were not quite my ideal client because they didn't want to leave necessarily, or they didn't want to start a business because they didn't think they could.
But I will say, too, for people who don't have that client avatar or that person, this could also be a really good way to test different types of people. So I'm thinking about a client who is still figuring out her niche, like she's in the marketing space, and in marketing you could do a million different things in marketing and with a million different types of people. And so what a great way to also have these conversations, these really targeted market research conversations to actually see even if you like talking to that type of person.
I know with her it has to do with - one of her ideas is with CEO or C-suite leaders and their personal branding. And it's kind of like, well, if you get in a room with all C-suite people and you hate the conversations or you feel yucky or it's just not feeling good in some way, that's really great data to shift and to also maybe explore a different avenue. So I think that the market research, it's great if you know your person who you want to become a client, but it also can serve us if we are still figuring that piece out. I think it just helps potentially to do a little bit more targeted conversations with people. And this could even be people you already networked with. And now you're like, hey, could you help me with this market research? Which people are always willing to help, I find. Joanne: Yeah, I think that what you're saying about when you have the market research conversations with a lot of different people, you can immediately tell like, oh, that felt a little icky. I didn't really like that. And then using that to figure out what was it that you didn't like about it so that moving forward, it’s just like you're able to hone more into who you really do want to work with.
Jenna: Yeah, and I would say, too, some really great general ideas around questions, just knowing what we talk about with niches and I have another great episode, episode 41 about niching down and there's a PDF that comes with that. So if you're like, I don't have my ideal client, maybe start there and that will give you a lot of really great resources and help to figure out who that person is. But ultimately, we want to figure out their problem, like a problem that they need to solve and also position ourselves to be able to solve it. Maybe not in that conversation per se, but that's what we want to be thinking about, because businesses solve problems. And so we want to figure out how somebody talks about their problem, what somebody deems a problem and make sure that there's problems that are out there to solve. So the example that you gave, Joanne, was specific to something that you were looking to figure out and get answered for yourself from your audience. But I think even before that, just finding the language for these problems that our people are having that we can then solve for them.
Joanne: Yeah, that kind of leads into what I wanted to talk about with first of all, okay, you want to do the market research. People are so willing to help, okay? And they for the most part, I would say people will say yes, let's do it. As long as you put the parameters around exactly what commitment that is for them for the market research. Again, it could be just a little - mine was a little survey. It could be having that face-to-face conversation with them, just so they know what exactly they're committing to. And when you're doing the market research, what you're saying is you want to get to what's the problem because businesses solve a problem. So what is it you want to listen for when you're doing your market research?
So there are four things that I had here that you can really listen for. One it has to do with the problem. Like what are their current frustrations and this usually comes out as like a complaint. Like if they're they come back from where they open the door and they're just like immediately like, blah.
What you're listening for in the market research call conversation is what are they complaining about? What are their frustrations? What are they saying like, I don't like how X, Y and Z, whatever that is. That gets into kind of their pain points and the what's the problem. You also want to listen for what are their future fears? What are they worrying about at 2:00 a.m. at night? What's keeping them up at night? What are they afraid of for their future self if they continue in this problem?
The next one is what are their current dreams? So what is it that they want? What is it they desire? This usually comes out as a, oh, I wish, I want X, Y, and Z. Really listen for what is it that they want. So I know we like to focus on the negative, and that really sticks with us, but this is like the real positive. Like what is it that they're imagining they want right now?
And then the fourth one is what are their future aspirations? So listening for who do they want to be in like six to 12 months? What do they want their friends to be saying about them in six to 12 months? Like, oh wow, Jenna is really - she’s really taking care of herself, you know? She's taking that time to go for a walk. That's amazing. Like those are those kind of future aspirations. So again, what are you listening for? Their current frustrations, their future fears, their current dreams, and their future aspirations. And this kind of gets into the next part of like what questions do you ask because you're not going to ask them, “So what is your future fear?” Because you're probably not going to get what you want from that because they're not going to know how to answer that. So there is there are ways to ask the questions so that you get to hear these frustrations, fears, dreams and aspirations.
Jenna: So what's coming up for me, some examples, if I were asking about the current frustrations, I might ask a mom what about your current role isn't working for you right now? When I'm asking about future fears, I will actually ask it pretty directly when I say what's your biggest fear with starting a business? But mine has fears clearly wrapped up in it. Current dreams, those are digging into what it means to have a business, how will life be different, aspirations, asking about who they will become when they have this business. So just to throw out some of my own examples there.
But I love this as a next step for anyone listening, no matter where you're at with your business, you can set up these conversations, you can come up with a few questions. You can use it as a bridge to figuring out your client, talking more to your client. You can also have it be a bridge to talking about what you do to people in your life because more than networking conversations, these lend themselves to you being able to say what you're doing and who you're working with or who you potentially want to work with. It's just a little bit more direct there.
I want to switch gears a little bit, or a lot of bit, and really just talk about briefly, because I know we don't have too much time left, but you shifted into entrepreneurship. You were a teacher. And I'm curious what gave you the courage to do that?
Joanne: So I would say what was like the big light bulb for me was hearing stories from other former teachers who left teaching and started their own business. I literally had to listen to like 20 stories in a row for that 20th story to finally hit me and go, "Oh, I can do this." It was really, yes, it was very inspiring. And because of the pandemic at that time, that kind of was also a big push. The great leap, could we call that? The great leap into business. So it was really just listening to stories and just feeling connected to what they were saying about why they left teaching because I was like, "Check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check." Those are all the same reasons for me and then hearing what kind of business they started and what that's like to run an online business. And so I know for your clients, they're taking that leap from corporate into…
Jenna: Or just a traditional 9 to 5. I say corporate because it's easier, but I've had some teachers as well. Some ex-teachers.
Joanne: Yeah, if you're wanting to make the leap, I feel like just hearing other people's stories was for me how I ended up successfully leaving teaching and starting my business and then being in that, I don't know if you want to call it the honeymoon phase where you're just like, you don't really know what's going on, but you're like, "Here we go." And just being on that wild ride of being a business owner and an entrepreneur and a mom and all the things.
Jenna: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think when you've been in a traditional job, a traditional role your entire career, it's like what's the saying? To a worm and horse radish, the world is horse radish, or something like that. If you've ever heard that, I mean, I think one of them is also like to a fish, the world is water. You're in the water, whatever. But you don't know, the world of entrepreneurship, you don't know just the vast variety of, especially in this day and age, of ways that you can create revenue and the ways that you can create value. And really that if you have built your career in a traditional role, you have value that you can package in some way, shape or form within your own business, 100%, whether it's consulting, whether it is helping with some sort of skill. I bucket your business into that.
Whether it's even creating a product or doing something that you're personally great at. I had a client who created a business with running kids' birthday parties because she was always the person that her friends and family came to for the decorations and the ideas and the balloon fixtures and then she just, you know, rented a space and created a business around it and is super successful and amazing.
But we kind of sell ourselves short if we've been in a traditional role our entire life because we're just not exposed to the possibility. And when you start talking to people, when you start hearing stories, it takes these outlandish ideas and makes them possible where you're like, oh, I didn't know there were all these moms building businesses and I didn't know that they were able to leave their traditional role. And the more you hear it, the more you're like, oh, I guess I could do that. And it's fantastic. And it's great to have a network of people who really know what the transition is like, because I'm sure there's a degree of mourning that happens and grief that happens when you give up the career that you built, especially one that you have to be a special person to do, right? Like you have to have really great values and vision for the world to be a teacher and to give that up is a whole journey. So community is so important in so many ways.
Joanne: Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I feel like that's usually the, if you take anything away is find community. Find community because that can be your source of encouragement and inspiration and connection and to keep, yeah, keep going.
Jenna: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that is why the Mom Entrepreneurs Circle exists, which I know that you have been a member of and you pop in there when you're able to come in and share all things email wisdom and strategy and connection, which what we're talking about is the most important piece. We'll put a link to the Mom Entrepreneur Circle just since I always love promoting that. But how can people get in touch with you? How can they if they're ready for email content to be open-worthy and get clicks and all those things, how do they get in touch with you?
Joanne: Yeah. First, I have to say your mom's group is a really amazing space and I always love coming and I just feel so nourished by the end of it. So I just need to say that first. Go check it out if you haven't gone. It's a really great community and Jenna, I feel like you really hold that space. It feels very safe to be in there, which says a lot because we're moms. We have a lot, a lot of things going on and to know that we're all moms there, we understand that piece of it and then running a business as well.
So if anyone wants to connect with me and what I like to say is value CAKE. That is my values. CAKE is community, audacious, authenticity, creativity with a K, and ethical integrity. You are my people. I love working and connecting with people who value CAKE. You can find me at - there's a few different places. One is my website, which is DeskPlanCreatives.com. I'm like, I can do this. I can spell my business name. Creatives is C R E A T I V E S. There is a S at the end. DeskPlanCreatives.com. And there’s…
Jenna: And for anyone who is not good at spelling or following along or driving, we will put the links in the show notes for sure. So you can go to Jenna.Coach and you can click on Joanne's stuff anywhere else. I just wanted to make sure people felt like they didn't have to pull over and write everything down.
Joanne: Right. Yeah, totally. I appreciate that. So, yeah, my website or on LinkedIn, you can search my name there, Joanne Homestead. I will not spell it.
Jenna: Yeah, no, we'll put your LinkedIn, we'll put your link. So you're active most active on LinkedIn?
Joanne: Mostly on LinkedIn at this point. And then of course my email community. I write emails if you want some inspiration for your content at some certain point. Come join me in my email community and you can get on to there by sign up for one of my free gifts, which you will find on my website. One is an email storytelling guide and it's a reference guide for when you want to start writing emails, how to structure it with the storytelling. And so it's not like you're wandering in a forest and you're writing and you're like, "I don't know what's going on anymore at this point."
It's very clear and again, like set the purpose. And then I have a new free gift which I haven't been promoting much, so I will share it here. It is the Copy Clarity Compass. And that is an assessment that you take. What I find that is for most of my clients, business owners who come to me, they are coming to me with their email content or their content in general, and they just don't know why it's not converting. So the Copy Clarity Compass is a comprehensive assessment to figure out why the content is not converting because it's multi-layered. I wish we could just have a magic pill and be like, oh, this is exactly what it is. But usually it's multi-layered. So if you would like to do that assessment, then you can also get onto my email community from there. And that is currently not on my website, but this will give me some motivation to put that on there.
Jenna: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Joanne. Well, we will put all the links in there to the episodes we referenced and to your website and how to get in touch with you. And I appreciate you coming on and talking and giving us your time today.
Joanne: Yeah, thank you, Jenna. I really appreciate you and thank you to all the listeners listening. I had a really good time talking about all things content and market research and business.
Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of How to Quit Your Job: A Mom’s Guide to Creating a Life and Business You Love. If you want to learn more about how I can help you stop making excuses and start making moves, head on over to www.jenna.coach. I’ll see you next week.
Welcome to How to Quit Your Job, the podcast for moms ready to ditch the nine-to-five and build a life and business they love. I’m your host, Jenna Rykiel. Let’s go.
Hi mom friends. You know, I can honestly say I think there's only one really good thing that came out of my MBA program. As I've said before on this podcast, you absolutely do not need an MBA to start a business. That was something that I thought I had to do. You absolutely do not have to. In fact, I could probably go on for days about how, in many ways, an MBA is the antithesis of entrepreneurship.
But there was one marketing course I took where we had to develop a new product for an already existing business. I remember I did some version of a meatless burger, and this was before they were everywhere. So apparently I was very well ahead of my time. But a huge part of that course was market research. It was about understanding the needs of our ideal customers. What questions do we ask to understand their problems? Is there actually a market for what we want to offer? And how do we talk about the solution in a way that connects with the people that we want to help?
All these years later, that might be the lesson from my MBA that has had the biggest impact on my business. And I think market research can sound like a big formal scary thing. But really it's just having conversations with people. It's getting to know them, understanding what they need, learning the language they use to describe their problems, and making sure the value you want to offer actually aligns with what people want.
And I think it can be especially powerful when you're at the beginning of building a business and you don't totally know what you're doing yet. You don't need the perfect business idea, you don't need your ideal client completely figured out. You don't even need the perfect offer. You can actually use these conversations to help you figure those things out. And that's a big part of what today's episode is all about.
Today I'm talking with a good friend and fellow mom entrepreneur, Joanne Homestead, founder of Desk Plant Creatives. Joanne and I met years ago through some web of networking and she's become one of those people in my work world who I've collaborated with, I've learned from, I've supported and I've received support from. And actually that's another reason I wanted to share this conversation today.
A few episodes ago, I talked about the importance of surrounding yourself with people who inspire you and who understand what you're doing. Joanne is a great example of what can happen when you expand your network and start building relationships with other entrepreneurs. Joanne left a career in teaching to build her own business as an email copy coach and strategist. And toward the end of our conversation today, we talk about what gave her the courage to make that transition and why hearing the stories of other people who had already done it was so important for her.
So there are really two things I want you listening for today. First, the practical piece: how you can use market research conversations to better understand your people, your business, your messaging, and even who you actually want to work with, even before you have any idea what you want to do. And second, I want you listening to Joanne's story through the lens of possibility and seeing her as one of us, somebody who had a career, was great at what she did, and who took a chance on herself to build something of her own. Because when you've spent your entire career in a traditional role, entrepreneurship can feel like this completely different world. And sometimes you need to talk to people doing it, you need to hear their stories and expose yourself to what's possible before you can start to imagine yourself doing it, too.
One quick note before we jump in. Joanne and I originally had a much longer conversation about all the things that she is such an expert in. We talked about email content, messaging, market research, and entrepreneurship. As I was listening back, I realized even though there was so much goodness in all the things that we were talking about, there was more value and it was easier to digest if I narrowed this episode down and really focused on the part of the conversation that I think will be most useful for you right now.
So you're going to hear us jump into the conversation already in progress. We start with market research: what it actually is, who to talk to, what questions to ask, and most importantly, what to listen for. And then, like I mentioned, we're going to shift into Joanne's own story of leaving a teaching career and building her own business. My hope is that by the end of this episode, market research feels a whole lot less intimidating, and entrepreneurship and taking that next step feels a little less mysterious.
And once you've digested all of Joanne's wisdom, I want to challenge you to go out and plan a few market research conversations of your own. Because sometimes the fastest way to create momentum isn't sitting at your computer trying to figure everything out. It's getting out into the world, talking to people, and seeing what you learn. All right, let's get into my conversation with Joanne.
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Jenna: Well, let's break it down. How would you describe market research? Because I imagine market research, as we're saying it, sounds super scary, where it's like, oh, this is scientific or it's technical or I need to be good at research or I need to know my market. It feels like none of that is actually true.
Joanne: Yeah. Market research is just a conversation. That's how I like to think of it. That's how I think of content, too. Content is just a conversation. They just have different structures and they just come in different vehicles. That's all. It's all just different types of conversations. So, yeah, I think that market research doesn't have to feel like big and hairy and scary. You could just have even a few questions and you can make it as short and as long as you want. Like here's an example.
I've done a market research last year or two years ago, and it was literally one question and that was it. And I just asked my community, what is it that they're looking for when it comes to working with me? It was a two-question survey. The second question was if you want to elaborate more and some people would put, oh, it was really hard to choose. I wanted to choose two or three and that's where they could do that, too. So market research could be as simple as just that and it could be more extensive, like having six to 10 questions, or it could just be like two or three questions. And then what I like to do is to just have a few kind of like anchor questions and then digging deeper into that, because what can happen is you ask the three questions, but you're not getting the information that you're looking for, and that's where you get to dig a bit.
Jenna: So who are we doing these market research conversations with? What do you say?
Joanne: Yeah, you definitely want to reach out to people you'd like to work with because those are the clients you want to be working with. So find the people that you want to work with. It could be a potential client because I know for myself, having done the market research, the market research conversation ends up they become a client. And so sometimes it's just gathering the information, which is really great, too. It's also that's the gold, too, because you can have the information to then help you hone your networking conversations, to hone your content, to hone the way you're having coffee chats, all of those things.
Jenna: So I love this for somebody who doesn't know who their ideal client is. I think this could also be a really powerful tool. I mean, when I started market research in my own business, I knew that I wanted to work with moms. Like I knew that I was going to be talking to moms who were in corporate, who want to leave, and I was going to be asking them, what gets in the way of you leaving? And why do you think that you wouldn't be able to start a business, right? Like I talked to a lot of people who had no intentions of starting a business actually, because I wanted to get in their heads and know why they thought they couldn't do it. Because of course, in my mind, I'm like, anybody can do it. Like I absolutely know that. Whether everybody wants to or not is a different story, but I knew capability wise that every mom could. So I really wanted to talk to people actually who were not quite my ideal client because they didn't want to leave necessarily, or they didn't want to start a business because they didn't think they could.
But I will say, too, for people who don't have that client avatar or that person, this could also be a really good way to test different types of people. So I'm thinking about a client who is still figuring out her niche, like she's in the marketing space, and in marketing you could do a million different things in marketing and with a million different types of people. And so what a great way to also have these conversations, these really targeted market research conversations to actually see even if you like talking to that type of person.
I know with her it has to do with - one of her ideas is with CEO or C-suite leaders and their personal branding. And it's kind of like, well, if you get in a room with all C-suite people and you hate the conversations or you feel yucky or it's just not feeling good in some way, that's really great data to shift and to also maybe explore a different avenue. So I think that the market research, it's great if you know your person who you want to become a client, but it also can serve us if we are still figuring that piece out. I think it just helps potentially to do a little bit more targeted conversations with people. And this could even be people you already networked with. And now you're like, hey, could you help me with this market research? Which people are always willing to help, I find. Joanne: Yeah, I think that what you're saying about when you have the market research conversations with a lot of different people, you can immediately tell like, oh, that felt a little icky. I didn't really like that. And then using that to figure out what was it that you didn't like about it so that moving forward, it’s just like you're able to hone more into who you really do want to work with.
Jenna: Yeah, and I would say, too, some really great general ideas around questions, just knowing what we talk about with niches and I have another great episode, episode 41 about niching down and there's a PDF that comes with that. So if you're like, I don't have my ideal client, maybe start there and that will give you a lot of really great resources and help to figure out who that person is. But ultimately, we want to figure out their problem, like a problem that they need to solve and also position ourselves to be able to solve it. Maybe not in that conversation per se, but that's what we want to be thinking about, because businesses solve problems. And so we want to figure out how somebody talks about their problem, what somebody deems a problem and make sure that there's problems that are out there to solve. So the example that you gave, Joanne, was specific to something that you were looking to figure out and get answered for yourself from your audience. But I think even before that, just finding the language for these problems that our people are having that we can then solve for them.
Joanne: Yeah, that kind of leads into what I wanted to talk about with first of all, okay, you want to do the market research. People are so willing to help, okay? And they for the most part, I would say people will say yes, let's do it. As long as you put the parameters around exactly what commitment that is for them for the market research. Again, it could be just a little - mine was a little survey. It could be having that face-to-face conversation with them, just so they know what exactly they're committing to. And when you're doing the market research, what you're saying is you want to get to what's the problem because businesses solve a problem. So what is it you want to listen for when you're doing your market research?
So there are four things that I had here that you can really listen for. One it has to do with the problem. Like what are their current frustrations and this usually comes out as like a complaint. Like if they're they come back from where they open the door and they're just like immediately like, blah.
What you're listening for in the market research call conversation is what are they complaining about? What are their frustrations? What are they saying like, I don't like how X, Y and Z, whatever that is. That gets into kind of their pain points and the what's the problem. You also want to listen for what are their future fears? What are they worrying about at 2:00 a.m. at night? What's keeping them up at night? What are they afraid of for their future self if they continue in this problem?
The next one is what are their current dreams? So what is it that they want? What is it they desire? This usually comes out as a, oh, I wish, I want X, Y, and Z. Really listen for what is it that they want. So I know we like to focus on the negative, and that really sticks with us, but this is like the real positive. Like what is it that they're imagining they want right now?
And then the fourth one is what are their future aspirations? So listening for who do they want to be in like six to 12 months? What do they want their friends to be saying about them in six to 12 months? Like, oh wow, Jenna is really - she’s really taking care of herself, you know? She's taking that time to go for a walk. That's amazing. Like those are those kind of future aspirations. So again, what are you listening for? Their current frustrations, their future fears, their current dreams, and their future aspirations. And this kind of gets into the next part of like what questions do you ask because you're not going to ask them, “So what is your future fear?” Because you're probably not going to get what you want from that because they're not going to know how to answer that. So there is there are ways to ask the questions so that you get to hear these frustrations, fears, dreams and aspirations.
Jenna: So what's coming up for me, some examples, if I were asking about the current frustrations, I might ask a mom what about your current role isn't working for you right now? When I'm asking about future fears, I will actually ask it pretty directly when I say what's your biggest fear with starting a business? But mine has fears clearly wrapped up in it. Current dreams, those are digging into what it means to have a business, how will life be different, aspirations, asking about who they will become when they have this business. So just to throw out some of my own examples there.
But I love this as a next step for anyone listening, no matter where you're at with your business, you can set up these conversations, you can come up with a few questions. You can use it as a bridge to figuring out your client, talking more to your client. You can also have it be a bridge to talking about what you do to people in your life because more than networking conversations, these lend themselves to you being able to say what you're doing and who you're working with or who you potentially want to work with. It's just a little bit more direct there.
I want to switch gears a little bit, or a lot of bit, and really just talk about briefly, because I know we don't have too much time left, but you shifted into entrepreneurship. You were a teacher. And I'm curious what gave you the courage to do that?
Joanne: So I would say what was like the big light bulb for me was hearing stories from other former teachers who left teaching and started their own business. I literally had to listen to like 20 stories in a row for that 20th story to finally hit me and go, "Oh, I can do this." It was really, yes, it was very inspiring. And because of the pandemic at that time, that kind of was also a big push. The great leap, could we call that? The great leap into business. So it was really just listening to stories and just feeling connected to what they were saying about why they left teaching because I was like, "Check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check." Those are all the same reasons for me and then hearing what kind of business they started and what that's like to run an online business. And so I know for your clients, they're taking that leap from corporate into…
Jenna: Or just a traditional 9 to 5. I say corporate because it's easier, but I've had some teachers as well. Some ex-teachers.
Joanne: Yeah, if you're wanting to make the leap, I feel like just hearing other people's stories was for me how I ended up successfully leaving teaching and starting my business and then being in that, I don't know if you want to call it the honeymoon phase where you're just like, you don't really know what's going on, but you're like, "Here we go." And just being on that wild ride of being a business owner and an entrepreneur and a mom and all the things.
Jenna: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think when you've been in a traditional job, a traditional role your entire career, it's like what's the saying? To a worm and horse radish, the world is horse radish, or something like that. If you've ever heard that, I mean, I think one of them is also like to a fish, the world is water. You're in the water, whatever. But you don't know, the world of entrepreneurship, you don't know just the vast variety of, especially in this day and age, of ways that you can create revenue and the ways that you can create value. And really that if you have built your career in a traditional role, you have value that you can package in some way, shape or form within your own business, 100%, whether it's consulting, whether it is helping with some sort of skill. I bucket your business into that.
Whether it's even creating a product or doing something that you're personally great at. I had a client who created a business with running kids' birthday parties because she was always the person that her friends and family came to for the decorations and the ideas and the balloon fixtures and then she just, you know, rented a space and created a business around it and is super successful and amazing.
But we kind of sell ourselves short if we've been in a traditional role our entire life because we're just not exposed to the possibility. And when you start talking to people, when you start hearing stories, it takes these outlandish ideas and makes them possible where you're like, oh, I didn't know there were all these moms building businesses and I didn't know that they were able to leave their traditional role. And the more you hear it, the more you're like, oh, I guess I could do that. And it's fantastic. And it's great to have a network of people who really know what the transition is like, because I'm sure there's a degree of mourning that happens and grief that happens when you give up the career that you built, especially one that you have to be a special person to do, right? Like you have to have really great values and vision for the world to be a teacher and to give that up is a whole journey. So community is so important in so many ways.
Joanne: Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I feel like that's usually the, if you take anything away is find community. Find community because that can be your source of encouragement and inspiration and connection and to keep, yeah, keep going.
Jenna: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that is why the Mom Entrepreneurs Circle exists, which I know that you have been a member of and you pop in there when you're able to come in and share all things email wisdom and strategy and connection, which what we're talking about is the most important piece. We'll put a link to the Mom Entrepreneur Circle just since I always love promoting that. But how can people get in touch with you? How can they if they're ready for email content to be open-worthy and get clicks and all those things, how do they get in touch with you?
Joanne: Yeah. First, I have to say your mom's group is a really amazing space and I always love coming and I just feel so nourished by the end of it. So I just need to say that first. Go check it out if you haven't gone. It's a really great community and Jenna, I feel like you really hold that space. It feels very safe to be in there, which says a lot because we're moms. We have a lot, a lot of things going on and to know that we're all moms there, we understand that piece of it and then running a business as well.
So if anyone wants to connect with me and what I like to say is value CAKE. That is my values. CAKE is community, audacious, authenticity, creativity with a K, and ethical integrity. You are my people. I love working and connecting with people who value CAKE. You can find me at - there's a few different places. One is my website, which is DeskPlanCreatives.com. I'm like, I can do this. I can spell my business name. Creatives is C R E A T I V E S. There is a S at the end. DeskPlanCreatives.com. And there’s…
Jenna: And for anyone who is not good at spelling or following along or driving, we will put the links in the show notes for sure. So you can go to Jenna.Coach and you can click on Joanne's stuff anywhere else. I just wanted to make sure people felt like they didn't have to pull over and write everything down.
Joanne: Right. Yeah, totally. I appreciate that. So, yeah, my website or on LinkedIn, you can search my name there, Joanne Homestead. I will not spell it.
Jenna: Yeah, no, we'll put your LinkedIn, we'll put your link. So you're active most active on LinkedIn?
Joanne: Mostly on LinkedIn at this point. And then of course my email community. I write emails if you want some inspiration for your content at some certain point. Come join me in my email community and you can get on to there by sign up for one of my free gifts, which you will find on my website. One is an email storytelling guide and it's a reference guide for when you want to start writing emails, how to structure it with the storytelling. And so it's not like you're wandering in a forest and you're writing and you're like, "I don't know what's going on anymore at this point."
It's very clear and again, like set the purpose. And then I have a new free gift which I haven't been promoting much, so I will share it here. It is the Copy Clarity Compass. And that is an assessment that you take. What I find that is for most of my clients, business owners who come to me, they are coming to me with their email content or their content in general, and they just don't know why it's not converting. So the Copy Clarity Compass is a comprehensive assessment to figure out why the content is not converting because it's multi-layered. I wish we could just have a magic pill and be like, oh, this is exactly what it is. But usually it's multi-layered. So if you would like to do that assessment, then you can also get onto my email community from there. And that is currently not on my website, but this will give me some motivation to put that on there.
Jenna: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Joanne. Well, we will put all the links in there to the episodes we referenced and to your website and how to get in touch with you. And I appreciate you coming on and talking and giving us your time today.
Joanne: Yeah, thank you, Jenna. I really appreciate you and thank you to all the listeners listening. I had a really good time talking about all things content and market research and business.
Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of How to Quit Your Job: A Mom’s Guide to Creating a Life and Business You Love. If you want to learn more about how I can help you stop making excuses and start making moves, head on over to www.jenna.coach. I’ll see you next week.
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