60. Why Early Legal Support Pays Off with Christian Hammond
Disclaimer: This episode is for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. Please consult with a qualified legal professional for advice tailored to your specific situation.
Starting a small business is a whirlwind of passion and hard work, and the last thing any entrepreneur wants to worry about is legal complexities. Many focus on immediate needs, unknowingly overlooking vital legal protections. But what if navigating the legal landscape wasn't a daunting task, but a strategic advantage?
This week, I’m joined by small business lawyer and founder of Bevel Law, Christian Hammond. Christian ditched 12-hour corporate days to build a law firm that actually serves mom-and-pop shops with the kind of partnership approach that makes legal support feel less intimidating and more strategic. Her mission centers on helping small business owners build rock-solid legal foundations before problems arise, not after.
Listen in to discover why finding the right lawyer is like dating, which legal pitfalls drain the most time and money from small businesses, and why having an attorney early in your business isn't a scary expense - it’s a strategic investment that saves you time, money, and sleepless nights.
Ready to start your networking journey? Join us every 2nd Thursday for my free Mom Entrepreneurs Circle. Sign up below for support, advice sharing, and the tools you need for both you and your business to thrive.
What You’ll Learn from this Episode:
The value that a lawyer can bring to a business, especially early on.
How finding the right lawyer who understands your business is like dating.
3 of the most common pitfalls small business owners often fall into.
How starting too many LLCs unnecessarily complicates your taxes and deadlines
Why independent contractors own your logo, content, and designs by default (and how to fix it).
What makes trademark protection urgent versus important for your brand.
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Christian Hammond: LinkedIn
34. Build Your Board of Directors: Strategic Support for Busy Moms
Full Episode Transcript:
Hi, mom friends. Today we're tackling a topic that keeps entrepreneurs up at night: the legal side of building a business. I want you to meet today Christian Hammond, a small business attorney who ditched her 12-hour days at a prestigious DC law firm to help mom-and-pop shops build rock-solid legal foundations.
What I love about Christian, she showed up to our interview in a jean jacket, not a blazer, because she's on a mission to make legal support feel accessible, not intimidating. She gets it. She left corporate law because it didn't align with the life she wanted, one where she could get married, have kids, and actually be present, which I know sounds familiar for so many of us.
In this conversation, we're diving into the biggest legal pitfalls she sees small business owners fall into, like starting too many LLCs or accidentally giving away ownership of your brand assets. We'll talk about why having legal support early isn't a scary expense, but a strategic partnership that saves you so much time, money, and sleepless nights.
Christian shares how to find the right lawyer. Spoiler alert, it's like dating. And she opens up about building a law firm that runs on just a few tech tools and proves you can build a business without trading one form of burnout for another. So whether you're wondering if you need an LLC, flying without proper contracts, or just want to know what legal pieces you might be missing, this conversation will give you the knowledge and confidence to take action. Let's dive in.
Welcome to How to Quit Your Job, the podcast for moms ready to ditch the nine-to-five and build a life and business they love. I’m your host, Jenna Rykiel. Let’s go.
Jenna: Hi, Christian. Thank you so much for chatting with me today. You are a lawyer for small businesses and having this conversation today is so valuable because when we are starting businesses and thinking about all the uncertainty and risks, we often think that we are alone in figuring it all out. And I've heard time and time again that bringing in a lawyer is really helpful early on in the business. I talk a lot about moms having a board of directors or like a support team that's there that can help and has expertise in different aspects of the business. So, can we just start out by talking about the value that a lawyer can bring to a business, especially early on in the business's life cycle?
Christian: There are so many different ways you can partner with an attorney. And I use that word intentionally, that word of partnering, because I think a great relationship with a lawyer is where you are coming together to accomplish that goal, reach that next level, whatever the objective is that you're trying to obtain. I think looking at it as a partnership is, again, kind of the best version of those relationships.
And I think there's a lot of different types of benefits. And early on, there's typically a lot of different questions people have. They're trying to decide, should I just get started or should I form an entity like an LLC and do I need a business bank account and how do I get an EIN? And then usually for service-based businesses, the next questions are things like contracts. So, what type of contract should I be having my client sign? And what should go into that contract? And then there can also be questions of, how do I protect my ideas?
You know, I have an ebook. I have a course. I have a process. I have some kind of signature service. And then of course, I also have my brand, my business name, my logo. Maybe you've got some slogans. How do I protect these ideas and how do I make sure that people cannot steal my ideas, especially in this world we are all living in with social media and artificial intelligence? How do I protect the things I've developed? So those are all questions that tend to come up early in the process and those are some questions where it's helpful to partner with that attorney early on.
Jenna: Yeah. And I'll just share, you know, before we started recording, there will be some video of this that's accessible, some of the clips, but you're wearing a nice jean jacket versus the blazer. And you said you did it on purpose because there is this preconceived notion that lawyers are scary. They're so buttoned up and there is this expectation and I think this fear that people have in working with a lawyer.
One, that it's going to be super expensive. Two, that it's probably going to be awkward or maybe even condescending in some ways. But there are definitely preconceived notions that hold business owners, especially moms early in their business, myself included, back from reaching out. So, I love this piece about like that it is a partnership and that it is somebody who's in your corner, on your team, that there are lawyers out there who are super approachable. I would love to learn a little bit about maybe how you recommend somebody new to business starting the process and how they can think about taking on the task of finding somebody who is right for them in law.
Christian: I could talk about this for a long time, but the analogy that I would draw is that looking for the right lawyer for your business is like dating. And so, I think you should have it in your mind from the jump that it might not be the first person you talk to. Like how for most of us, the person we ended up marrying was not the first person we went on a date with, although more power to you if you had luck the first time. I know I didn't. There were many first dates before I eventually met my husband. And I think that finding a lawyer is kind of like that because you need someone who has expertise in what you're dealing with. So that's a question. Some people do, some people don't.
You need someone, I actually think this is really important, you need someone that you communicate well with. And what that means is that when you talk to them and they talk to you, you feel like you're connecting and you're understanding each other. If you're in a conversation and it feels like you're talking past each other and it feels like things just aren't connecting, that's not the right fit for you.
You need to be able to talk to your lawyer and if you feel like you're not understanding what they're saying and if you're asking them to clarify and their answer is even more confusing than the first one they gave you, that's not the kind of connection you're looking for. You need to have a really good communication relationship. And it's okay, just like on a first date. You know, you sit down to that first date and sometimes the conversation is not connecting. Same deal, I think, when you're looking for an attorney.
A lot of times actually, the clients that I have, they will come to me after having had a negative experience with another attorney and they'll say, man, the last person that I worked with was really condescending. And I'm like, man, do not pay someone to talk down to you. Do not pay someone to be condescending and to make you feel bad about what you don't know. So the first thing I would say is that finding the right lawyer is like dating, so it might take a while. It might take a few conversations.
And the second thing I would say is that communication point is really important. You're not just looking for a smart person, although you are looking for a smart person. You are also looking for a smart person who understands your business, who believes in your business, and who you feel you communicate well with. And there are different ways to go about that. You can start by asking your other business friends, your other business besties who they are using and you could talk to some of the people they're using. You could also of course just go on Google Maps and see who's local or go to Google search and see who specializes in what you're looking for.
And many attorneys, not all, but many attorneys will offer a complementary discovery call. Could be 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, but it's a complimentary call where you can actually get to know them. And in that 15, 20, 30 minutes, you're probably going to get a really good feel for whether you connect with that person and whether they really get you and they get your business or whether they don't and it's time to move on. And there's no downside to having these complimentary calls. It costs you nothing. It costs you time, so that's true. But in my mind, there's no downside. And you can have as many of those calls as you'd like to have until you connect with someone who feels right.
Jenna: Yeah, that's such a good point too. And that's the same in coaching, right? Like I tell people to shop around, to have conversations to see who you vibe with, to have a good understanding going into it what you're looking for, but then, of course, the things that you hear and that are brought up in those conversations are so valuable.
I know I do free strategy sessions, you know, an hour long, and in those, when I'm meeting somebody new, my goal in that hour is for them to move forward and to learn more about themselves and to really have like momentum to move forward after that conversation, whether they work with me or not. And I imagine it's somewhat similar. I guess it depends a little bit on the person, but those conversations, they're free and it's action, right? I'm all about people taking action on this.
And there's so much more value in having that conversation, that free conversation with an expert on business law versus staying stuck, worried about the risks of not knowing what type of business to start or not knowing about your intellectual property or feeling like, oh my gosh, I have to hire people and I don't know what to do if they're in other states, right? There's so much confusion that keeps people, myself included, right? It keeps us stuck. And it's a beautiful thing that there are experts out there who know all the things and can help us move forward.
So I love that even just having that conversation is a very low barrier to entry and it will move you forward even if you don't end up hiring a lawyer, even if you maybe find out in those conversations that maybe right now in your business, you don't need a lawyer. So I love that. I love that as like this nice little action piece and I would recommend for everyone to like go have one of those conversations. You know, you don't have to plan on hiring that person, but just get into the groove of talking to somebody and, you know, demystifying the process in general.
I'm curious, what are the biggest pitfalls that you have seen in maybe current clients or people who, you know, stories you've heard of in the industry? What are common legal pitfalls that small business owners fall into when it comes to intellectual property, but maybe even all the things?
Christian: Again, this is something I feel like I could talk about for so long, but let me run through some main ones that I see. One common pitfall that I often see is just starting too many LLCs. And this typically happens for people who are running more than one business. So maybe they have a consulting business, but they also have a podcast, or maybe they are writing children's books, but they also have a graphic design side of their business or whatever it might be.
And a pitfall that I see is that people will set up LLCs for every single thing that they're doing. I forgot to mention this at the beginning of the podcast, but now's a good time to do it for anyone who's listening. Disclaimer: This episode is not legal advice. And the reason I have to give that disclaimer is because your situation is unique and the reason that you can never take a podcast or a blog post or anything general like that as legal advice is because there are always exceptions to the rule.
There might be something in your tax situation, your family situation, your financial situation, or just your tolerance for risk, whether you are risk-loving or whether you're very risk-averse. There's always exceptions to the rule that could make something else true for you. So that's why when I give a disclaimer saying this is not legal advice, that's why. You need your own personal lawyer to help you make actual action decisions.
So having made that disclaimer, generally speaking, you don't need an LLC for all these things because you can simply do what's called a DBA. A DBA stands for doing business as. This has different names in different states. Some states call it a DBA. Some states call it a trade name. Some states call it a fictitious business name. These are all synonyms for the same thing. So, different terms in different states. But you can do a DBA and say, okay, I have this one LLC and from this LLC, I'm running a graphic design business. I'm writing children's books. And maybe I also have a podcast. And there's nothing wrong with that right off the bat.
Now, there are sometimes reasons where it does make sense to separate these things in order to protect maybe one thing from another. Maybe one activity you're doing is actually pretty risky. And so you want your other activity to be protected from that risky other activity. But that's a mistake that I see people do and it's not a mistake in that it's wrong, but it unnecessarily complicates your life, your taxes, it means you're juggling twice the number of deadlines and filing reports and personal property tax reports, and it's just an unnecessary complication. So that's something that I see people doing.
And then the last two things I will touch on is a big pitfall is that people will hire independent contractors. And again, there can be one word or several words for the same thing. So independent contractor, 1099, self-employed, freelancer, these are all different terms for the exact same thing. And I think that in and of itself is something maybe people didn't know that all these terms are just synonyms.
So an independent contractor is the same thing as a freelancer, same thing as self-employed, same thing as 1099, those are all synonyms, or subcontractor. But regardless of what you might call it, you hire this person. You ask them to design a logo for you. You ask them to edit your podcast. You ask them to create social media posts or maybe they're more involved than that. Maybe they are actually duplicating some of your responsibilities. So you're actually delegating some client work to that person.
So you hire them as a contractor, which is super common. A lot of small business owners start with contractors before they move on to actual full-time employees. So super common, nothing wrong with that in and of itself. But what people don't realize is that under US copyright law, so copyright law here in the States, an independent contractor owns everything that they do by default. So you might be paying them, but they own the work. So you paid a graphic designer to do your logo, they own the logo. If you're a motivational speaker, you paid someone to write your speech for whatever events you're doing, they own the speech. You paid someone to write social media posts, they own the posts.
And the only way for that to not be true is to have the proper language in your contract. And so many small business owners hire these service providers with no contract, but even if they do have a contract, they often don't have the right language in there so that they can own what they're paying this person to create. And I see this over and over and over again because then they come to me and they want to trademark their, get a registered trademark for their logo.
And my first question is, do you own this logo? And they go, well, of course I own the logo. I paid for it. And I say, okay, great, where's the contract? You know, where's the contract that you had the graphic designer sign? And they go, oh, what contract? Now, the good news is that these are often fixable problems. They then hire me and I'll go back after the fact and we'll track down the graphic designer and we'll get them to sign. Hopefully, most of the time we are able to get them to sign. But it's a lot better if you don't have to track down your graphic designer from five years ago and try to get them to sign something. So, that is definitely something I see all the time.
Jenna: Oh gosh, that hits home, especially as a podcast creator. I always say, you know, I'm just the talent and my team, you know, then they make the magic with it, but I'll have to go back and check the contract. I do think in, like they created the contract. I think it has it in there, but it's so important. Contracts are such a big topic. And before we jump into because I have some more thoughts about contracts, I know you said you had one more thing that you wanted to share in this pitfall conversation.
Christian: The very last thing that I would say is not early enough seeking trademark registration protection for their brand. And let me just say off the bat that trademark registration, there is a question of when is the right time, because a ton of people launch with business names that, truth be told, they're not really in love with them, right? They just, I need to get the business up. I'm going to choose this name. This is what I'm going with. So plenty of small business owners have business names that they're not really in love with them and they honestly wouldn't care if, you know, tomorrow they needed to rebrand to something else. And so if you're in that situation, nothing wrong with that, totally fine. And there's, like I said, nothing wrong with that.
But there usually does come a time, maybe it's been a few years, you've got a really good handle on who your ideal client is. You've got a really good handle on what your niche is. And at that point, you get what I hear a lot of clients refer to as their grownup business name. They end up rebranding to a name that they've come to or that they've discovered that really does feel right for their business and it might take a while to get to that name, but they've got a name they love. That would be the time when it really would make actual sense to protect that name with a trademark registration.
And so the pitfall though that I see is that people just kind of, it's the kind of thing that falls to the bottom of the to-do list, right? Because you're managing your client relationships and you're going to networking events and, oh, by the way, you've got the rest of your life with family and kids and friends and the house and all the other things you're managing. And protecting your business on the legal side, it just falls to the bottom of the list, right? Because it doesn't feel present. It feels important, but it doesn't feel urgent, so it just falls to the bottom of the list.
And I hate having the tough conversation with a small business owner of, I'm sorry, but there's nothing we can do because this trademark is unprotected and somebody else got to it first and there's nothing we can do about that. I hate having those conversations. So yeah, I would say that those are the pitfalls that I will typically see in, say, the early stages of business.
Jenna: One of my mentors, actually somebody who I just recently went to a conference and saw, drove home that everybody needs, who's starting a business needs a lawyer, an accountant, and a financial advisor. Like and a financial advisor mostly for like business finances, right? Especially if you're doing complicated things like taking on funding and investors for starting a business, which I know is its whole own can of worms in entrepreneurship.
But what I wanted to say about contracts too, and I think this leads to a bigger point and goal of this episode specifically, is that for me, and I think contracts hit home for me because I remember it being so scary creating that contract that I would have with a client, right? Because there's legal jargon, there's things that I still don't even know what they mean on my contract with clients. And there's this like bigger conversation about protection and if, you know, if some a client like sues you and these are scary things that are very real.
And there's a feeling that we need to figure it out. And I mentioned this before, but then there's the value of peace of mind and of having somebody in your corner. And yes, it may cost something. It might be an expense in your business, but the value of having that person look it over or help you craft it, saves so much time and energy. And I know that business owners early on are less enthused about paying for things for their business and the expenses, but, you know, if we are really putting our entrepreneur hat on, like this is something that is just so important for building a mature business and from a very strong foundation.
So we might hesitate to bring on that type of help, but ultimately, like it is help that will pay dividends, you know, over and over again because of the amount of stress that it saves in the long run, just to get it created. Now, like, you know, there's compounding effects for how it can protect you down the line and all the benefits of that. But that's me talking from experience of being in that boat of like, oh no, there's no way I can hire a lawyer because I don't want to pay for it. Meanwhile, I have no idea, right? I didn't have these beautiful free conversations where you are dating and learning about it.
So I bring that up with contracts because it's just so near and dear to my heart knowing how much stress went into something like that. And there are so many other examples of that I think we get caught up in really holding ourselves back because we are so worried about different legal entities within in a business. But how much that can be streamlined and really made easy when we have someone who knows exactly what they're doing.
So, I would love to, I mean, I could talk about this forever and I know that there are so many nuggets that we did not get into. And I do want to, you know, make sure everybody knows where they can have that conversation with you to start, and then maybe get the courage to have more and more, and do some speed dating or not so speed dating.
But I do want to hear a little bit about what led you to create your own business within this field? And you’re actually the first not-official mom as a guest on the podcast, but you are an aspiring mom, which I love and wish you the best in all that. But I want to hear what starting the business was like for you, how you made that decision, and maybe some reflections on that in case there’s anyone listening who has that law degree, is feeling burnt out in the traditional law space and really is like, oh, maybe I can create my own business.
Christian: Absolutely. And I have a feeling, or I have a feeling that my story may be similar to many of your listeners, in that I was working a corporate job, as I know so many of us were, and I just knew that it didn't line up with some of the things that I really wanted in my life. So at the time, I was single and didn't have kids, and those were both things that I knew I wanted, meaning I knew I wanted to get married, I knew I wanted to have kids, I knew I wanted to be a mom, and it was so hard for me to - or not so hard, I really didn't see a path forward for me to have the family life that I wanted while working that job at the same time.
Because I was getting in at nine, 10, o'clock in the morning, and I was working until 11 o'clock or midnight at night. So I was working these 12, 14, hour days every single day. It was not compatible with the things I wanted. Like I said, I wanted a family life, but also I wanted to be a good friend, and I couldn't even reliably say to a friend, “Hey, let's get dinner seven o'clock on Thursday” without there being a 75% chance I'd have to cancel on them because of work. So it didn't line up with what I wanted in my life, personally, but also I didn't personally find the work fulfilling. I was working for a large, prestigious law firm right here in Washington, DC, but the reality was, for these large companies, you know, what's 20 million here or there, it's a drop in the bucket for these, for these large companies, it's a drop in the bucket.
So it was very difficult for me to feel that my work actually mattered to anybody really. And so when I decided to leave my corporate law job and start my own law firm, completely switching from representing big companies to representing small companies, it was a huge shift. But what's really amazing now is that I feel like my work actually matters. You know, I represent mom and pop shops. I represent family-owned businesses and small business owners, and it feels now I'm doing work where that business is everything to that person. You know, it's everything they've worked on. It's everything they've put their effort to. It's their sweat and their blood and their tears. And this business is paying for their kids college. This business is going to be paying for their retirement. And, wow, it feels like, okay, now my work actually matters.
So a huge shift, a complete shift in the types of clients I was working with, but really, really satisfying. That's a little bit about my own journey.
Jenna: Yeah, and real quick, because I'm so curious about it. How were you able, or how have you seen the transition of workload and the hours you're working? Because, you know, one of the things that I hear that moms say to me is the entrepreneurship is a grind, and I'll probably be working even more hours, because, you know, I can't just leave the office and go home. I can't leave it at home. It's then, you know, this baby that I'm bringing into the world when I start a business. So I'm curious for you, how was that transition, and did you actually maintain more of this, I guess, “work-life balance.”
Christian: Having that balance was a non-negotiable for me coming into my business. And I know that that's not true for everyone, and so I just want to acknowledge that people have different goals. They have different desires. But for me, coming out of a job where I was working 12 to 14 hours a day, every day, it was a non-negotiable for me, that I was moving to something else that was not going to be that that was non-negotiable. I was also previously working a job where there was really no such thing as vacation. You were expected to take your laptop on vacation. You were expected, if need be, to be available for client calls on vacation.
I did not want to live that way anymore, and so it was non-negotiable for me to establish a business where that was not true. And so I think when you're starting a business, you don't know. You don't know fully what you're getting into. You don't know fully what shape that business will take. But what you can know at the beginning is what you want. And so I think you can just sit down with a piece of paper and write out the five things, what do you want out of this business, and so I didn't know everything. In fact, there were a lot of things I didn't know, but what I did know is I'm not going to work 12 hours a day, and I'm not going to work on my vacations. And so I was really clear about that.
And so what that meant, what that required for me, was to really rely on technology to do all the busy work things to do the busy work things to do those time-consuming things that can make your day go past that kind of nine to five barrier that I've set for myself. And people can have different barriers. So I really rely heavily on technology, and I'm not talking about artificial intelligence, I'm just talking about technology tools that were available five years ago when I started my business. I really relied heavily on technology, and I will really honestly say that was a stretching and a growing point for me.
When I started my business, I was like, I'm on Facebook, and that's all I'm willing to do. I'm not willing to learn any more platforms. I don't want to do anything else. I'm on Facebook. That's it. But when I started my business, I had to learn how to use Instagram, and I had some friends who already had Instagram, and I asked them, will you teach me how to use Instagram? And they did, and that's been huge for me in growing my business, but I had to step out of my comfort zone and be willing to learn a new platform.
And my entire law firm runs on about three different tech tools. I don't like clutter as far as the different tools that I'm using and also paying for because these are subscriptions. We pay for them every month. So I'm using three tools to pretty much run the whole firm. But again, I had to step out of my comfort zone, and I had to put away the idea that, oh my gosh, this is kind of hard, and I feel a little intimidated, and this is technology, and I don't really consider myself a tech expert per se. I had to put that to one side, and I'm so glad I did, because it allows me to run a law firm without spending all day and all night on paperwork and nitty gritty things and scheduling and all that stuff that technology can easily take off your plate.
Jenna: Yeah. And truly, you know, you said that people's goals are different, but I do think 100% that we can build businesses without running ourselves into the ground. I think there's so much time and energy that is spent in places that are consumed by just even worry, like this whole conversation, right? You can lose sleep over wondering whether you need insurance or a contract or whether you need to protect your intellectual property, right? You can lose sleep over that, and that is just one example of, like, the detrimental impacts of on your wellness with not having a proper team around you and making decisions for your business that also help your wellness as well.
And it's sometimes not obvious, like, you know that one, but I bring that up because I just had a client text me who was losing sleep over another client because they didn't have insurance yet for something in their business. And she was like, losing sleep. And I'm like, okay, I need you to get sleep. And you know, we'll work with this other person, just because I do a group coaching each week so my clients know about each other's businesses and such.
But anyway, you know, it's those things that come into play when we're thinking about how to build a business that we love and that we aren't trading one form of burnout for another. So in the show notes will be how moms can get in touch with you and how they can have those conversations. You can go to, you know, Jenna.Coach/55, 56, 57, sorry, I don't know which one it will be, to get the links and connect with you. Also, I would recommend that a good episode for people to check out is episode 34 about building your board of directors and that's all about getting strategic support for us as busy moms. But how else can people find out more about you, about your business? What's the best way for them to connect?
Christian: I am the founder and owner of a law firm called Bevel Law. That's Bevel with a B, like a beveling tool. And you can find me and my firm at BevelLaw.com. You can follow the firm on Instagram. It's @bevellaw. And of course, I'm on LinkedIn as well. I post a lot on LinkedIn, but really the website and also Instagram are the best places to find more information. And I have a ton of just great, completely free information through Instagram. Also, you can go to the website, you can go to help articles, and I've got all kinds of blog posts and all this is completely free, really helpful for business owners. So check out the blog, check out the content on Instagram. It's free, it's legal, tips, tricks, things you didn't know before. Check it out.
Jenna: The other thing we're going to put in the show notes because we haven't talked about this, but unrelated to law to a degree, you also have a podcast where you interview business owners who have been in the game for, I think, 10 or 15 years, right?
Christian: Yes, 10 years or more.
Jenna: Yeah, and so you are sort of tapping into their genius and what has kept their businesses alive and well and all that wisdom that they bring. So we'll also link that because I know that is such a powerful resource as well.
Christian: Yes, and the podcast is a mix. So it's called The Legal Upgrade and there are episodes where, again, we're talking about legal tips, legal tricks, things that come up so that you can just get really great legal information. And then also, there are interviews on there. So interviews with other legal experts, but also, as you said, interviews with business owners who have been doing what they do for 10 or more years.
And these are really to tell stories of grit and resilience. And I think especially in a year like this year where some people are facing economic uncertainty and different things going on with their contracts, that these are great stories of grit and resilience and what it takes to push through in business even in the tough times.
Jenna: I love that. Thank you so much, Christian, and I know we'll probably need a part two at some point because this is such a meaty topic, but thank you for being here.
Christian: Thank you for having me.
Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of How to Quit Your Job: A Mom’s Guide to Creating a Life and Business You Love. If you want to learn more about how I can help you stop making excuses and start making moves, head on over to www.jenna.coach. I’ll see you next week.
What I love about Christian, she showed up to our interview in a jean jacket, not a blazer, because she's on a mission to make legal support feel accessible, not intimidating. She gets it. She left corporate law because it didn't align with the life she wanted, one where she could get married, have kids, and actually be present, which I know sounds familiar for so many of us.
In this conversation, we're diving into the biggest legal pitfalls she sees small business owners fall into, like starting too many LLCs or accidentally giving away ownership of your brand assets. We'll talk about why having legal support early isn't a scary expense, but a strategic partnership that saves you so much time, money, and sleepless nights.
Christian shares how to find the right lawyer. Spoiler alert, it's like dating. And she opens up about building a law firm that runs on just a few tech tools and proves you can build a business without trading one form of burnout for another. So whether you're wondering if you need an LLC, flying without proper contracts, or just want to know what legal pieces you might be missing, this conversation will give you the knowledge and confidence to take action. Let's dive in.
Welcome to How to Quit Your Job, the podcast for moms ready to ditch the nine-to-five and build a life and business they love. I’m your host, Jenna Rykiel. Let’s go.
Jenna: Hi, Christian. Thank you so much for chatting with me today. You are a lawyer for small businesses and having this conversation today is so valuable because when we are starting businesses and thinking about all the uncertainty and risks, we often think that we are alone in figuring it all out. And I've heard time and time again that bringing in a lawyer is really helpful early on in the business. I talk a lot about moms having a board of directors or like a support team that's there that can help and has expertise in different aspects of the business. So, can we just start out by talking about the value that a lawyer can bring to a business, especially early on in the business's life cycle?
Christian: There are so many different ways you can partner with an attorney. And I use that word intentionally, that word of partnering, because I think a great relationship with a lawyer is where you are coming together to accomplish that goal, reach that next level, whatever the objective is that you're trying to obtain. I think looking at it as a partnership is, again, kind of the best version of those relationships.
And I think there's a lot of different types of benefits. And early on, there's typically a lot of different questions people have. They're trying to decide, should I just get started or should I form an entity like an LLC and do I need a business bank account and how do I get an EIN? And then usually for service-based businesses, the next questions are things like contracts. So, what type of contract should I be having my client sign? And what should go into that contract? And then there can also be questions of, how do I protect my ideas?
You know, I have an ebook. I have a course. I have a process. I have some kind of signature service. And then of course, I also have my brand, my business name, my logo. Maybe you've got some slogans. How do I protect these ideas and how do I make sure that people cannot steal my ideas, especially in this world we are all living in with social media and artificial intelligence? How do I protect the things I've developed? So those are all questions that tend to come up early in the process and those are some questions where it's helpful to partner with that attorney early on.
Jenna: Yeah. And I'll just share, you know, before we started recording, there will be some video of this that's accessible, some of the clips, but you're wearing a nice jean jacket versus the blazer. And you said you did it on purpose because there is this preconceived notion that lawyers are scary. They're so buttoned up and there is this expectation and I think this fear that people have in working with a lawyer.
One, that it's going to be super expensive. Two, that it's probably going to be awkward or maybe even condescending in some ways. But there are definitely preconceived notions that hold business owners, especially moms early in their business, myself included, back from reaching out. So, I love this piece about like that it is a partnership and that it is somebody who's in your corner, on your team, that there are lawyers out there who are super approachable. I would love to learn a little bit about maybe how you recommend somebody new to business starting the process and how they can think about taking on the task of finding somebody who is right for them in law.
Christian: I could talk about this for a long time, but the analogy that I would draw is that looking for the right lawyer for your business is like dating. And so, I think you should have it in your mind from the jump that it might not be the first person you talk to. Like how for most of us, the person we ended up marrying was not the first person we went on a date with, although more power to you if you had luck the first time. I know I didn't. There were many first dates before I eventually met my husband. And I think that finding a lawyer is kind of like that because you need someone who has expertise in what you're dealing with. So that's a question. Some people do, some people don't.
You need someone, I actually think this is really important, you need someone that you communicate well with. And what that means is that when you talk to them and they talk to you, you feel like you're connecting and you're understanding each other. If you're in a conversation and it feels like you're talking past each other and it feels like things just aren't connecting, that's not the right fit for you.
You need to be able to talk to your lawyer and if you feel like you're not understanding what they're saying and if you're asking them to clarify and their answer is even more confusing than the first one they gave you, that's not the kind of connection you're looking for. You need to have a really good communication relationship. And it's okay, just like on a first date. You know, you sit down to that first date and sometimes the conversation is not connecting. Same deal, I think, when you're looking for an attorney.
A lot of times actually, the clients that I have, they will come to me after having had a negative experience with another attorney and they'll say, man, the last person that I worked with was really condescending. And I'm like, man, do not pay someone to talk down to you. Do not pay someone to be condescending and to make you feel bad about what you don't know. So the first thing I would say is that finding the right lawyer is like dating, so it might take a while. It might take a few conversations.
And the second thing I would say is that communication point is really important. You're not just looking for a smart person, although you are looking for a smart person. You are also looking for a smart person who understands your business, who believes in your business, and who you feel you communicate well with. And there are different ways to go about that. You can start by asking your other business friends, your other business besties who they are using and you could talk to some of the people they're using. You could also of course just go on Google Maps and see who's local or go to Google search and see who specializes in what you're looking for.
And many attorneys, not all, but many attorneys will offer a complementary discovery call. Could be 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, but it's a complimentary call where you can actually get to know them. And in that 15, 20, 30 minutes, you're probably going to get a really good feel for whether you connect with that person and whether they really get you and they get your business or whether they don't and it's time to move on. And there's no downside to having these complimentary calls. It costs you nothing. It costs you time, so that's true. But in my mind, there's no downside. And you can have as many of those calls as you'd like to have until you connect with someone who feels right.
Jenna: Yeah, that's such a good point too. And that's the same in coaching, right? Like I tell people to shop around, to have conversations to see who you vibe with, to have a good understanding going into it what you're looking for, but then, of course, the things that you hear and that are brought up in those conversations are so valuable.
I know I do free strategy sessions, you know, an hour long, and in those, when I'm meeting somebody new, my goal in that hour is for them to move forward and to learn more about themselves and to really have like momentum to move forward after that conversation, whether they work with me or not. And I imagine it's somewhat similar. I guess it depends a little bit on the person, but those conversations, they're free and it's action, right? I'm all about people taking action on this.
And there's so much more value in having that conversation, that free conversation with an expert on business law versus staying stuck, worried about the risks of not knowing what type of business to start or not knowing about your intellectual property or feeling like, oh my gosh, I have to hire people and I don't know what to do if they're in other states, right? There's so much confusion that keeps people, myself included, right? It keeps us stuck. And it's a beautiful thing that there are experts out there who know all the things and can help us move forward.
So I love that even just having that conversation is a very low barrier to entry and it will move you forward even if you don't end up hiring a lawyer, even if you maybe find out in those conversations that maybe right now in your business, you don't need a lawyer. So I love that. I love that as like this nice little action piece and I would recommend for everyone to like go have one of those conversations. You know, you don't have to plan on hiring that person, but just get into the groove of talking to somebody and, you know, demystifying the process in general.
I'm curious, what are the biggest pitfalls that you have seen in maybe current clients or people who, you know, stories you've heard of in the industry? What are common legal pitfalls that small business owners fall into when it comes to intellectual property, but maybe even all the things?
Christian: Again, this is something I feel like I could talk about for so long, but let me run through some main ones that I see. One common pitfall that I often see is just starting too many LLCs. And this typically happens for people who are running more than one business. So maybe they have a consulting business, but they also have a podcast, or maybe they are writing children's books, but they also have a graphic design side of their business or whatever it might be.
And a pitfall that I see is that people will set up LLCs for every single thing that they're doing. I forgot to mention this at the beginning of the podcast, but now's a good time to do it for anyone who's listening. Disclaimer: This episode is not legal advice. And the reason I have to give that disclaimer is because your situation is unique and the reason that you can never take a podcast or a blog post or anything general like that as legal advice is because there are always exceptions to the rule.
There might be something in your tax situation, your family situation, your financial situation, or just your tolerance for risk, whether you are risk-loving or whether you're very risk-averse. There's always exceptions to the rule that could make something else true for you. So that's why when I give a disclaimer saying this is not legal advice, that's why. You need your own personal lawyer to help you make actual action decisions.
So having made that disclaimer, generally speaking, you don't need an LLC for all these things because you can simply do what's called a DBA. A DBA stands for doing business as. This has different names in different states. Some states call it a DBA. Some states call it a trade name. Some states call it a fictitious business name. These are all synonyms for the same thing. So, different terms in different states. But you can do a DBA and say, okay, I have this one LLC and from this LLC, I'm running a graphic design business. I'm writing children's books. And maybe I also have a podcast. And there's nothing wrong with that right off the bat.
Now, there are sometimes reasons where it does make sense to separate these things in order to protect maybe one thing from another. Maybe one activity you're doing is actually pretty risky. And so you want your other activity to be protected from that risky other activity. But that's a mistake that I see people do and it's not a mistake in that it's wrong, but it unnecessarily complicates your life, your taxes, it means you're juggling twice the number of deadlines and filing reports and personal property tax reports, and it's just an unnecessary complication. So that's something that I see people doing.
And then the last two things I will touch on is a big pitfall is that people will hire independent contractors. And again, there can be one word or several words for the same thing. So independent contractor, 1099, self-employed, freelancer, these are all different terms for the exact same thing. And I think that in and of itself is something maybe people didn't know that all these terms are just synonyms.
So an independent contractor is the same thing as a freelancer, same thing as self-employed, same thing as 1099, those are all synonyms, or subcontractor. But regardless of what you might call it, you hire this person. You ask them to design a logo for you. You ask them to edit your podcast. You ask them to create social media posts or maybe they're more involved than that. Maybe they are actually duplicating some of your responsibilities. So you're actually delegating some client work to that person.
So you hire them as a contractor, which is super common. A lot of small business owners start with contractors before they move on to actual full-time employees. So super common, nothing wrong with that in and of itself. But what people don't realize is that under US copyright law, so copyright law here in the States, an independent contractor owns everything that they do by default. So you might be paying them, but they own the work. So you paid a graphic designer to do your logo, they own the logo. If you're a motivational speaker, you paid someone to write your speech for whatever events you're doing, they own the speech. You paid someone to write social media posts, they own the posts.
And the only way for that to not be true is to have the proper language in your contract. And so many small business owners hire these service providers with no contract, but even if they do have a contract, they often don't have the right language in there so that they can own what they're paying this person to create. And I see this over and over and over again because then they come to me and they want to trademark their, get a registered trademark for their logo.
And my first question is, do you own this logo? And they go, well, of course I own the logo. I paid for it. And I say, okay, great, where's the contract? You know, where's the contract that you had the graphic designer sign? And they go, oh, what contract? Now, the good news is that these are often fixable problems. They then hire me and I'll go back after the fact and we'll track down the graphic designer and we'll get them to sign. Hopefully, most of the time we are able to get them to sign. But it's a lot better if you don't have to track down your graphic designer from five years ago and try to get them to sign something. So, that is definitely something I see all the time.
Jenna: Oh gosh, that hits home, especially as a podcast creator. I always say, you know, I'm just the talent and my team, you know, then they make the magic with it, but I'll have to go back and check the contract. I do think in, like they created the contract. I think it has it in there, but it's so important. Contracts are such a big topic. And before we jump into because I have some more thoughts about contracts, I know you said you had one more thing that you wanted to share in this pitfall conversation.
Christian: The very last thing that I would say is not early enough seeking trademark registration protection for their brand. And let me just say off the bat that trademark registration, there is a question of when is the right time, because a ton of people launch with business names that, truth be told, they're not really in love with them, right? They just, I need to get the business up. I'm going to choose this name. This is what I'm going with. So plenty of small business owners have business names that they're not really in love with them and they honestly wouldn't care if, you know, tomorrow they needed to rebrand to something else. And so if you're in that situation, nothing wrong with that, totally fine. And there's, like I said, nothing wrong with that.
But there usually does come a time, maybe it's been a few years, you've got a really good handle on who your ideal client is. You've got a really good handle on what your niche is. And at that point, you get what I hear a lot of clients refer to as their grownup business name. They end up rebranding to a name that they've come to or that they've discovered that really does feel right for their business and it might take a while to get to that name, but they've got a name they love. That would be the time when it really would make actual sense to protect that name with a trademark registration.
And so the pitfall though that I see is that people just kind of, it's the kind of thing that falls to the bottom of the to-do list, right? Because you're managing your client relationships and you're going to networking events and, oh, by the way, you've got the rest of your life with family and kids and friends and the house and all the other things you're managing. And protecting your business on the legal side, it just falls to the bottom of the list, right? Because it doesn't feel present. It feels important, but it doesn't feel urgent, so it just falls to the bottom of the list.
And I hate having the tough conversation with a small business owner of, I'm sorry, but there's nothing we can do because this trademark is unprotected and somebody else got to it first and there's nothing we can do about that. I hate having those conversations. So yeah, I would say that those are the pitfalls that I will typically see in, say, the early stages of business.
Jenna: One of my mentors, actually somebody who I just recently went to a conference and saw, drove home that everybody needs, who's starting a business needs a lawyer, an accountant, and a financial advisor. Like and a financial advisor mostly for like business finances, right? Especially if you're doing complicated things like taking on funding and investors for starting a business, which I know is its whole own can of worms in entrepreneurship.
But what I wanted to say about contracts too, and I think this leads to a bigger point and goal of this episode specifically, is that for me, and I think contracts hit home for me because I remember it being so scary creating that contract that I would have with a client, right? Because there's legal jargon, there's things that I still don't even know what they mean on my contract with clients. And there's this like bigger conversation about protection and if, you know, if some a client like sues you and these are scary things that are very real.
And there's a feeling that we need to figure it out. And I mentioned this before, but then there's the value of peace of mind and of having somebody in your corner. And yes, it may cost something. It might be an expense in your business, but the value of having that person look it over or help you craft it, saves so much time and energy. And I know that business owners early on are less enthused about paying for things for their business and the expenses, but, you know, if we are really putting our entrepreneur hat on, like this is something that is just so important for building a mature business and from a very strong foundation.
So we might hesitate to bring on that type of help, but ultimately, like it is help that will pay dividends, you know, over and over again because of the amount of stress that it saves in the long run, just to get it created. Now, like, you know, there's compounding effects for how it can protect you down the line and all the benefits of that. But that's me talking from experience of being in that boat of like, oh no, there's no way I can hire a lawyer because I don't want to pay for it. Meanwhile, I have no idea, right? I didn't have these beautiful free conversations where you are dating and learning about it.
So I bring that up with contracts because it's just so near and dear to my heart knowing how much stress went into something like that. And there are so many other examples of that I think we get caught up in really holding ourselves back because we are so worried about different legal entities within in a business. But how much that can be streamlined and really made easy when we have someone who knows exactly what they're doing.
So, I would love to, I mean, I could talk about this forever and I know that there are so many nuggets that we did not get into. And I do want to, you know, make sure everybody knows where they can have that conversation with you to start, and then maybe get the courage to have more and more, and do some speed dating or not so speed dating.
But I do want to hear a little bit about what led you to create your own business within this field? And you’re actually the first not-official mom as a guest on the podcast, but you are an aspiring mom, which I love and wish you the best in all that. But I want to hear what starting the business was like for you, how you made that decision, and maybe some reflections on that in case there’s anyone listening who has that law degree, is feeling burnt out in the traditional law space and really is like, oh, maybe I can create my own business.
Christian: Absolutely. And I have a feeling, or I have a feeling that my story may be similar to many of your listeners, in that I was working a corporate job, as I know so many of us were, and I just knew that it didn't line up with some of the things that I really wanted in my life. So at the time, I was single and didn't have kids, and those were both things that I knew I wanted, meaning I knew I wanted to get married, I knew I wanted to have kids, I knew I wanted to be a mom, and it was so hard for me to - or not so hard, I really didn't see a path forward for me to have the family life that I wanted while working that job at the same time.
Because I was getting in at nine, 10, o'clock in the morning, and I was working until 11 o'clock or midnight at night. So I was working these 12, 14, hour days every single day. It was not compatible with the things I wanted. Like I said, I wanted a family life, but also I wanted to be a good friend, and I couldn't even reliably say to a friend, “Hey, let's get dinner seven o'clock on Thursday” without there being a 75% chance I'd have to cancel on them because of work. So it didn't line up with what I wanted in my life, personally, but also I didn't personally find the work fulfilling. I was working for a large, prestigious law firm right here in Washington, DC, but the reality was, for these large companies, you know, what's 20 million here or there, it's a drop in the bucket for these, for these large companies, it's a drop in the bucket.
So it was very difficult for me to feel that my work actually mattered to anybody really. And so when I decided to leave my corporate law job and start my own law firm, completely switching from representing big companies to representing small companies, it was a huge shift. But what's really amazing now is that I feel like my work actually matters. You know, I represent mom and pop shops. I represent family-owned businesses and small business owners, and it feels now I'm doing work where that business is everything to that person. You know, it's everything they've worked on. It's everything they've put their effort to. It's their sweat and their blood and their tears. And this business is paying for their kids college. This business is going to be paying for their retirement. And, wow, it feels like, okay, now my work actually matters.
So a huge shift, a complete shift in the types of clients I was working with, but really, really satisfying. That's a little bit about my own journey.
Jenna: Yeah, and real quick, because I'm so curious about it. How were you able, or how have you seen the transition of workload and the hours you're working? Because, you know, one of the things that I hear that moms say to me is the entrepreneurship is a grind, and I'll probably be working even more hours, because, you know, I can't just leave the office and go home. I can't leave it at home. It's then, you know, this baby that I'm bringing into the world when I start a business. So I'm curious for you, how was that transition, and did you actually maintain more of this, I guess, “work-life balance.”
Christian: Having that balance was a non-negotiable for me coming into my business. And I know that that's not true for everyone, and so I just want to acknowledge that people have different goals. They have different desires. But for me, coming out of a job where I was working 12 to 14 hours a day, every day, it was a non-negotiable for me, that I was moving to something else that was not going to be that that was non-negotiable. I was also previously working a job where there was really no such thing as vacation. You were expected to take your laptop on vacation. You were expected, if need be, to be available for client calls on vacation.
I did not want to live that way anymore, and so it was non-negotiable for me to establish a business where that was not true. And so I think when you're starting a business, you don't know. You don't know fully what you're getting into. You don't know fully what shape that business will take. But what you can know at the beginning is what you want. And so I think you can just sit down with a piece of paper and write out the five things, what do you want out of this business, and so I didn't know everything. In fact, there were a lot of things I didn't know, but what I did know is I'm not going to work 12 hours a day, and I'm not going to work on my vacations. And so I was really clear about that.
And so what that meant, what that required for me, was to really rely on technology to do all the busy work things to do the busy work things to do those time-consuming things that can make your day go past that kind of nine to five barrier that I've set for myself. And people can have different barriers. So I really rely heavily on technology, and I'm not talking about artificial intelligence, I'm just talking about technology tools that were available five years ago when I started my business. I really relied heavily on technology, and I will really honestly say that was a stretching and a growing point for me.
When I started my business, I was like, I'm on Facebook, and that's all I'm willing to do. I'm not willing to learn any more platforms. I don't want to do anything else. I'm on Facebook. That's it. But when I started my business, I had to learn how to use Instagram, and I had some friends who already had Instagram, and I asked them, will you teach me how to use Instagram? And they did, and that's been huge for me in growing my business, but I had to step out of my comfort zone and be willing to learn a new platform.
And my entire law firm runs on about three different tech tools. I don't like clutter as far as the different tools that I'm using and also paying for because these are subscriptions. We pay for them every month. So I'm using three tools to pretty much run the whole firm. But again, I had to step out of my comfort zone, and I had to put away the idea that, oh my gosh, this is kind of hard, and I feel a little intimidated, and this is technology, and I don't really consider myself a tech expert per se. I had to put that to one side, and I'm so glad I did, because it allows me to run a law firm without spending all day and all night on paperwork and nitty gritty things and scheduling and all that stuff that technology can easily take off your plate.
Jenna: Yeah. And truly, you know, you said that people's goals are different, but I do think 100% that we can build businesses without running ourselves into the ground. I think there's so much time and energy that is spent in places that are consumed by just even worry, like this whole conversation, right? You can lose sleep over wondering whether you need insurance or a contract or whether you need to protect your intellectual property, right? You can lose sleep over that, and that is just one example of, like, the detrimental impacts of on your wellness with not having a proper team around you and making decisions for your business that also help your wellness as well.
And it's sometimes not obvious, like, you know that one, but I bring that up because I just had a client text me who was losing sleep over another client because they didn't have insurance yet for something in their business. And she was like, losing sleep. And I'm like, okay, I need you to get sleep. And you know, we'll work with this other person, just because I do a group coaching each week so my clients know about each other's businesses and such.
But anyway, you know, it's those things that come into play when we're thinking about how to build a business that we love and that we aren't trading one form of burnout for another. So in the show notes will be how moms can get in touch with you and how they can have those conversations. You can go to, you know, Jenna.Coach/55, 56, 57, sorry, I don't know which one it will be, to get the links and connect with you. Also, I would recommend that a good episode for people to check out is episode 34 about building your board of directors and that's all about getting strategic support for us as busy moms. But how else can people find out more about you, about your business? What's the best way for them to connect?
Christian: I am the founder and owner of a law firm called Bevel Law. That's Bevel with a B, like a beveling tool. And you can find me and my firm at BevelLaw.com. You can follow the firm on Instagram. It's @bevellaw. And of course, I'm on LinkedIn as well. I post a lot on LinkedIn, but really the website and also Instagram are the best places to find more information. And I have a ton of just great, completely free information through Instagram. Also, you can go to the website, you can go to help articles, and I've got all kinds of blog posts and all this is completely free, really helpful for business owners. So check out the blog, check out the content on Instagram. It's free, it's legal, tips, tricks, things you didn't know before. Check it out.
Jenna: The other thing we're going to put in the show notes because we haven't talked about this, but unrelated to law to a degree, you also have a podcast where you interview business owners who have been in the game for, I think, 10 or 15 years, right?
Christian: Yes, 10 years or more.
Jenna: Yeah, and so you are sort of tapping into their genius and what has kept their businesses alive and well and all that wisdom that they bring. So we'll also link that because I know that is such a powerful resource as well.
Christian: Yes, and the podcast is a mix. So it's called The Legal Upgrade and there are episodes where, again, we're talking about legal tips, legal tricks, things that come up so that you can just get really great legal information. And then also, there are interviews on there. So interviews with other legal experts, but also, as you said, interviews with business owners who have been doing what they do for 10 or more years.
And these are really to tell stories of grit and resilience. And I think especially in a year like this year where some people are facing economic uncertainty and different things going on with their contracts, that these are great stories of grit and resilience and what it takes to push through in business even in the tough times.
Jenna: I love that. Thank you so much, Christian, and I know we'll probably need a part two at some point because this is such a meaty topic, but thank you for being here.
Christian: Thank you for having me.
Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of How to Quit Your Job: A Mom’s Guide to Creating a Life and Business You Love. If you want to learn more about how I can help you stop making excuses and start making moves, head on over to www.jenna.coach. I’ll see you next week.
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